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Post by AeThErOs on Jun 30, 2011 7:24:44 GMT -5
A great build I worked a LONG time on but its finally done/revised!!! 9 pylon 13 gateway 14 gas 15 gas 16 pylon 18 cyber 19 zealot 22 sentry 23 twi @100% cyber: wg research @100% twi: take 3 probes off gas (so only 1 is working) @200 gas: charge @7:00 expand @7:00 2 stargates @7:00 put 3 probes back on gas Keep your zealots out in the open, phoenix for harrass and if you scout a big battle to snipe off medivacs and then to lift of marines. Works like a charm strengths: MMM! and most variations of it, marine siege tank, you will probably have them waste mins cuz you kill their scv and they waste even MORE mins on the anti air turrets so out macro-ing weaknesses: counter harass might be hard, mmmt (thors), mmmv (vikings) mmmb (battlecruisers but you'll probably outnumber the bc so bad that you'll own them anyways lol To be used only when you scout the terran getting 2 rax and not a fast factory or whatever, this works best against infantry heavy builds. and noob builds like mass siege tanks but that's outta the question [little_text] I did not make the idea for this build. It was my friend, prancinggazel.[/little_text]
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Post by prancinggazel on Jul 20, 2011 10:05:32 GMT -5
yeah i made the idea.... but it would have never gotten good without AEtheros cause i don't botther to think about build orders or ratios.... ever
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 20, 2011 10:07:27 GMT -5
also-- now that I think about it I have a big book of starcraft math. unfortunately I can't post it here cuz it's just a bit over 60,000 characters long which is over the proboards limit. Maybe I can try to split it up into 2 parts but I'd rather play a game of starcraft than try to split it.
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 20, 2011 10:26:08 GMT -5
Phoenix chargelot is a REALLy good build. GJ Atheros! Its best especially around the time when the terran secures 2nd/or 3rd expand. vsed that build and i know.
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 20, 2011 22:16:56 GMT -5
Problem is that you can't just attack a good terran-- you need to wait for his attack and catch him off guard. And after that loss you need to capitalize, you can't wait for a second attack because anything other than mmm will basically kill you.
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 20, 2011 22:31:30 GMT -5
most terrans -vs protoss- usually go for MMM, and the way they do this is just by bunkering themselves in the terran turtle. However, if u do let that MMM ball get maxed out then zealot and pheonixes arent really gonna cut it. the zealots will die instanly and the pheonix will have hard time trying to kill the left over force. In late game vs MMM, collosus and ht's are what u really want to get. like atheros said, u cant continue to sit back with pheonix charglot because the terran will get the units to counter the charglots. Once the terrans first attack icleaned u have to counter attack. but what if the terran is succesfuly bunkered in and is macroing until the one upcoming BIG battle? cause just zealots and pheonixes are definetly nt enough.
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 21, 2011 0:47:37 GMT -5
totally HT's. But until around 100 population of actual units, zealot/phoenix will cut it. It's just when T gets to 3-3 when you need the storms.
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 21, 2011 5:27:04 GMT -5
I don't really think that even phoenix chargelot will work well against 100 pop of units. because, at one point, u have to get those higher tier units...namely in this case the hts. i found phoenix chargelot to be very potent up till the 13-ish minute mark. after that the terran would have gotten some-more upgrades//ur zealots will melt away extremely quickly, especially if the marines are kept in the inside of the MMM ball. what i would suggest to this build after vsing it once already would be to switch into higher tech units sooner--when u secure ur third or something.
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 21, 2011 22:31:42 GMT -5
Well, if you have the benefit of better positioning and you've got a great first harass I'd say that the 13-minute mark isn't to... strong. Even a bit past it isn't that strong either-- I like to stick with it until around 16-17 minutes in which I switch to the more lategame based gateway/star units, maybe a mothership if I see he has reactors on his starport and some voids instead of phoenix as phoenix are heavily micro based which is pretty hard to do in big numbers, maybe a bunch of sentries and stalkers, less chargelots but still some. I like to stick with them core units though.
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 21, 2011 23:22:56 GMT -5
Well, maybe a few more matches against it and ill see. but for now, i feel that superior terran micro and fast upgrades--Mar slow-- will negate a lot of the chargelots. However, like u said, if u were to engage the terran army out in the open so that the chargelots get a better surround, u could rely on it longer. however, i wouldn't just rely on the fact of better positioning....... especially in maps like Xelnaga caverns or metalpolis. However, in a nice big open map like taldarim altar this strat could be very potent. I personally would get high templars a lot sooner, say around the 13 minute mark, because by then the terran would have the defense against phoenix harass and probs got a lot of upgrades. and if we are playing more the passive macro style then ill go straight to colossus.
Also, note that i am regarding this to a fairly good terran player....
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 22, 2011 2:25:45 GMT -5
terran micro? wtf? I thought this was against mmm!! xel naga cavers has the area near the rich... just in front of the dual pringed enterance. Metal is a bit harder, but you can flank via the ramps or xel naga caverns, or right in front of the nat-- it requires good reaction skills. I'm only really scared of same air/ground shattered temple. Anywhere else and flanking via xel naga tower is good. But yeah you're probably right thre armor upgrades just kinda obsoletes the chargelots even though you still want some. I'm in silver too so those people don't get upgrades that early.
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 22, 2011 3:11:33 GMT -5
Yea, ur probably right about flanking ur opponent in Xelnaga. However, Xelnaga caverns would benefit u more if u went 2 gate robo. I would pick 2 gate robo over pheonix chargelot just because of those choke points by the tower where the collosus splash damage would really take into effect. Also, a terran--a good terran-- would split up his units to minimize the damage that the zealots would inflict. Again, i am justbasing this offof what i think. I am no good terran player so i dont know. But, as a protoss player, on a map like Xelnaga, id favor 2 gate robo
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 22, 2011 11:33:03 GMT -5
2 gate robo works for like... what? the first 2 bases I think? once you get into the open-ness, colosi lose all their good power. Splitting up forces=more surface are for my chargelots. NOM NOM NOM!!
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Post by ProMiNEnce on Jul 22, 2011 20:48:03 GMT -5
2 gate robo works all around against MMM. there is no point when collosus are "bad" against MMM. Sure, u have to get charge and hts soon or later, but 2 gate robo is viable way after ur third base. Collosus still have their "good power" out in the open.......Its just better in chokes. I have stayed with it till my third base until i started to get some different units--hts--stargate units--depends. But, point being, Collosus are a very powerful option all around.
Oh and ur right about the splitting forces and how they would be easier for ur zealots. LOL i was thinking about splitting siege tanks...soz
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Post by AeThErOs on Jul 23, 2011 1:32:06 GMT -5
colosi have critical mass of 5 against mmm-- that's 30 supply needed just to make their infantry ball weak. And considering they will add vikings sooner or later. Hehe
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